More Selective Patient Interviews = Propecia Causes Severe Depression?
Snippet from the article:
Men who take the hair-loss medication Propecia and develop sexual side effects may be at risk for severe depression and suicidal thoughts, a new study suggests.
In the study, 64 percent of men who developed long-lasting sexual side effects from the drug also reported experiencing moderate or severe symptoms of depression, and nearly 40 percent reported suicidal thoughts.
Low libido and erectile dysfunction have been reported in men taking Propecia, and in some, the side effects persist after the medication is stopped. It is not known how many men experience long-lasting sexual side effects from Propecia, but it is thought to be a small percentage.
Doctors and Propecia users should be aware of the potential serious risks of the medication, “especially as it is being used cosmetically, to alter a normal age-related process,” said study researcher Dr. Michael Irwig, an assistant professor of medicine at the George Washington University School of Medicine and Health Sciences in Washington, D.C.
Read the rest — Hair-loss drug linked to severe depression in men
I’ve already received a couple dozen emails from readers sending me links to various articles written about this (and some links to press releases from law firms seeking out people looking to sue). I really am having difficulty here in that the report cited: “Irwig interviewed 61 young men whose average age was 25, who had previously used finasteride (the generic name for Propecia). All the men had experienced sexual side effects for at least three months after they stopped taking the medication. They had not experienced sexual problems before taking the medication, and did not have a history of mental illness.”
Reports that I have read from other countries don’t seem to report the severe sexual side effects or depression as reported in this article, so I am certainly confused. With 100% of those interviewed for this study reporting lasting sexual side effects, there appears to be a bias in the reporting and I have to wonder if these were among the same group of patients that were also interviewed from the Propecia complaint forums (like the last media blitz from Dr. Irwig’s interviews).
With that said, from my readings and from an occasional patient who reported mood alterations from Propecia, I have little doubt that in a subgroup of patients, the 5-alpha-reductase blocker does impact some brain function, perhaps enough to be a cause of depression. On those patients who had some alteration in mood, the symptoms went away in a few days after they stopped the drug.
Certainly, this latest wave of media coverage is alarmist. The article notes that “the findings are preliminary, and further research is needed to confirm them” but that isn’t going to stop the swarms of ambulance chasers looking to make a buck.
This seems like another article with some problems. One of the biggies, of course, is that correlation does not imply causation. Especially when there are other very plausible rival hypotheses in play.
I won’t even go too much into the whole internet cyberchondria thing that has been going around for the past half decade or so. Not just for hair loss, but for a whole lot of medical conditions. But for those who are interested, see:
https://articles.cnn.com/2007-12-20/health/ep.cyberchondriacs_1_first-year-medical-students-skin-cancer-internet?_s=PM:HEALTH
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberchondria
A simple causal pathway for this is cyberchondria causes —> anxiety which in turn causes —-> anxiety and depression which then causes —-> lowered libido and sexual dysfunction.
Anxious and depressed people, whether the anxiety and depression is from work related stress, for someone’s death or loss of a loved one, from hypochondria, or from various other sources often have lowered libidos and sexual dysfunction.
Another issue here is that hair loss itself is a significant source of anxiety and depression for men, although in today’s society its still not okay to talk about it. This is starting to become more documented, as some are beginning to realize that men are not rocks, that they have emotions and feelings too, and that they can become very sad and confused and fearful and depressed due to hair loss and the associated loss of good looks, loss of the ability to attract women, being made fun of by friends and society…and add the other dozens of pains and hardships balding men face in our society.
All of this makes men SAD and DEPRESSED.
It is a very plausible chain of causality. Sex is often the last thing on an anxious and depressed person’s mind.
Now I am not saying with absolute certainty that this is what is going on. But I would like to say it is that it is POSSIBLE that much of this stuff is psychologically, rather than physically, based.
All I’m saying is that this might be what is going on. That it is possible.
The good doctor has once again downplayed the serious risks that one may encounter as a result of Propecia treatment.
“I have little doubt that in a subgroup of patients, the 5-alpha-reductase blocker does impact some brain function, perhaps enough to be a cause of depression.”
Merck has already updated their label to including depression as a possible side effect of Propecia usage. The truth is that many men experience neuropsychiatric side effects that are far worse than your typical depression and they sometimes, but not always, go away within days of stopping the medication. It is not unheard of for cognitive disturbances to last for months or even years without resolution, which begs the question as to whether or not there is any hope for some of those who have been suffering for longer periods of time.
The doctor evidently has not read the article, and I would request that he does so before offering an opinion from his soap box in the future.
Mark: that was an excellent post and you have quite eloquently explained what I also believe is going on here. Unfortunately there have been absolutely no studies done on this phenomenon (cyberchondria or related) with regards to finasteride, and I don’t think we will ever see them either. It is absolutely without question that the vast majority of people with these persistent symptoms don’t want to even consider the fact that anything other than finasteride might be to blame. This is why nobody would participate in a study that works to identify any other potential causes for the symptoms.
I strongly believe that what you have explained accounts for the bulk of these cases. A subset may in fact be caused by finasteride, but the study discussed here does absolutely nothing to further the theory.
I’ve read all 3 of Dr Irwig’s finasteride studies and none of them makes any progress towards explaining or quantifying these persistent symptoms whatsoever. In fact, they keep getting less relevant and less useful. For example, I can’t make any sense of why this control group was set up in the way it was. The first group had taken finasteride, quit, and had persistent sexual issues. The control group had hair loss, but did not take finasteride or have any sexual issues. Comparing these two groups makes absolutely no sense, and I don’t understand what the intent was here.
The only conclusion that can be reasonably reached is that young balding men who have sexual dysfunction are quite significantly more depressed than young balding men who do not have sexual dysfunction.
I think what’s actually happening here is that finasteride can not (and still HAS NOT) be implicated in causing these persistent sexual symptoms, so researchers are skipping that part. I can’t think of any other reason why Dr. Irwig would spend the time on studying the impact of a condition that nobody even knows was caused by finasteride. He’s going at the whole thing backwards, and appears to have also thrown the entire scientific method out the window.
I guess those little details don’t matter when you can rely on the media to convince the public.
Your theory of “cyberchondria” is appealing to Propecia fanatics but has a significant hole that leads to a contradiction in your reasoning. A very large group of men have been diagnosed with objective health maladies such as Peyronie’s disease, hypogonadism, reduced semen volume, or pudendal neuropathy, none of which can be caused by psychological stress or mental factors. Sure… it is “POSSIBLE” that there are some men who are hypochondriacs (like Tex) that have developed problems after taking Propecia but your theory does not explain how men are developing problems that cannot be explained psychologically.
Grant, Merck has listed “depression” on the product leaflet under the section “incidence unknown”. This means that it was reported to them and/or the FDA in sufficient quantity to indicate a possible association, warranting warnings on the PPI. However, this does not mean it is a quantified side effect, or even that anyone is sure finasteride causes it.
This speaks for itself:
“Because these reactions are reported voluntarily from a population of uncertain size, it is not always possible to reliably estimate their frequency or establish a causal relationship to drug exposure”
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Dr. Rassman’s response. It was completely accurate given the lack of conclusive data we have on the topic. I am aware of one study which indicates finasteride may affect neurosteroids and a possible outcome could be depression in certain patients. I believe Dr. Rassman was simply referencing this paper. I have no idea why you insist on berating him other than the fact that he has chosen not to adopt the alarmist tone in which you find yourself acquainted with.
The Irwig study does not allow us to draw any useful conclusions. The fact is that we already have plenty of well conducted placebo controlled studies done on the drug. I don’t recall seeing any that report ‘depression’ in any significance over the control group.
Yes, recent research has suggested that the drug could induce depression in patients prone to it, and it probably does. The problem is, we’ve had tens of thousands of men take this drug for years in all these controlled clinical studies. Not only are huge percentages of men not ending up with depression, NONE of them are! How can you explain this if you believe the drug poses a serious risk of depression?
Another nail in the coffin of Propecia. It’s about time.
The problem is this is a drug in search of a disease to treat. Male pattern baldness is NOT pathological. It is NOT a disease. Why is it that no one on this board seems to understand that? To me that is the real issue.
Hence, to meet the risk/benefit analysis, Propecia would require 100% proof that it cannot cause ED or ANY sexual dysfunction, otherwise it fails as a drug that should be on the market. It’s time to move Propecia to a US Schedule I drug- one illegal to possess and one that cannot be prescribed. It has no medical value and a high risk of harm.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not against taking good drugs. I take 2.5 mgs per day of Xanax (as one dose) prescribed by my psychiatrist to treat anxiety and panic attacks, which are real illnesses. Xanax too is said to have a potential to cause ED and sexual dysfunction, but this is total nonsense; it causes no such thing (in fact the opposite is true- in enhances libido). It has no side effects and treats a real disorder.
With Propecia hair transplant docs hand the drug out like it is nothing. It’s time something be done to warn the public of the health risks Propecia poses.
Finasteride is used in the treatment of prostate conditions and therefore it won’t be removed from sale as the ‘cost/benefit’ ratio is not based purely on hair loss.
Though the confused post above seems to have missed the tens of thousands (at least) of people who have ‘reported’ adverse effects from benzodiazepine class drugs like Xanax. Drugs have side effects, some people suffer from these, many do not. You will find a massive range of people out there who believe that psychoactive compounds should not be prescribed to anybody and that it is a huge pharmaceutical con. The fact that you have had a good experience with a drug seems to have given a deranged one sided view of another drug.
For reference I think we’d need to look at the adverse drug reports. If you’d like to compare Xanax to Propecia for instance you’ll find a four fold higher incidence of reports on Xanax to the FDA, and a significant amount in neurological disorder categories. I’m sure everyone is happy that it’s helped you and your experience has been outside of the poor individuals reporting severe side effects from Xanax but you’d possibly do well to research your argument in a little more detail?
So anxiety and panic attacks are real diseases? Search the internet and you’ll find far more boards than propecia-obsessives remarking that they are not diseases and need cognitive therapy not medication. If we’re going off ‘what some guy on the internet says’ as the final marker of what drugs are approved and what conditions we’re allowed to be concerned by or not then we may be in much greater trouble than I ever realized.
“Finasteride is used in the treatment of prostate conditions and therefore it won’t be removed from sale as the ‘cost/benefit’ ratio is not based purely on hair loss.”
Not true. Finasteride at 5%+ is used to treat prostate conditions (BPH), true, but not the 1% dose for hair loss. There is NO evidence that Fin at 1% treats prostate disease; on the contrary is may actually cause an increase in prostate diseases, often the most aggressive. Being that Fin acts on the prostate easily explains why it impairs male sexual functioning and causes a host of sexual disorders, the worst of which is, of course, ED.
“You will find a massive range of people out there who believe that psychoactive compounds should not be prescribed to anybody and that it is a huge pharmaceutical con.:You will find a massive range of people out there who believe that psychoactive compounds should not be prescribed to anybody and that it is a huge pharmaceutical con.”
Yes, the people who believe that psychoactive compounds should not be prescribed to anyone are called chiropractors, “naturalists” , “herbalists”, etc. Chiropractic, taking just one example among any, is simply the record of a successful con job. These people are quacks who do nothing but sell people a bill of goods and do nothing.
I can assure you anxiety and panic attacks are real diseases in need of medical therapy, not talk therapy, and certainly not superstition (a belief in god or other myths) but real medicine.
On more remark about Xanax. It spite of the negative publicity it has received in recent years, it has been a life saver for me. It allows me to function and and be the happy and productive person I was meant to be. Upjohn developed Xanax, filing a patent in 1969, which was approved in 1976, and was investigated initially as as an anti-anxiety and anti-depression drug. Upjohn spent millions of dollars on over 50 double blind studies in the early 1970s that proved Xanax relieved depression; however, the FDA, at the last moment, pulled its approval to market Xanax as an anti-depressive drug, for reasons never explained, but instead said it could be marketed as “an anti-anxiety drug that does not cause depression.” It was finally on the market in 1981. The miracle of the drug is that it has anti-anxiety and anti-depressive effects on me, and no side effects. Don’t compare a REAL and valuable medication to Propecia, which causes lasting, maybe permanent ED and treats a cosmetic issue only, and does so in the least effective way possible (hair transplants are more effective).
Steven, I fail to see the logic in your responses. You suggest that because hair loss is not pathological, it has no implications beyond losing a few hairs? Do you believe that male pattern baldness can not negatively affect mental health in any way, shape or form? I am assuming you are the same Steven that is considering getting a hair transplant, right? Obviously it’s troubling enough for you to consider plunking down thousands of dollars to resolve it. Why would you even consider this taking into account what you said? You would be undergoing a surgical procedure, which necessitates anesthetics and poses the distinct possibility of various complications. You are taking this risk to resolve your hair loss. How is this any different than people taking a risk to take Propecia? Might as well ban Minoxidil because it causes side effects too!
Finasteride treats BPH, which IS a pathological condition. It has also been shown to reduce incidence rates of prostate cancer by up to 25%. It is also the best current treatment for hair loss, and has a very low rates of side effects.
Get this through your head. YOU have made a decision based on YOUR value system not to take this drug. Whatever your reasons are, they are your own. Where exactly do you get off trying to dictate the decisions of others? If people want to take the very small risk to treat their hair loss (after considering the full disclosure of potential side effects), then they should have this choices. Maybe you aren’t bothered by your hair loss enough to consider it, but what about the guy contemplating suicide or another guy who has lost every bit of his self esteem because of it? Try to tell them that because it’s not a pathological condition that it shouldn’t matter. Hell, try and tell ME that. My hair loss caused significant mental issues for years before I chose to treat it. Half a year on Propecia reversed my hair loss as well as
You seem pretty hell bent on getting this medication banned. I believe you are so persistent on this point because you are making an effort to rationalize your own decision. It’s not fair that you have to lose your hair because you are scared of Propecia, so why should anyone else be allowed to take the drug?
Steven, this is in response to your second post. You REALLY need to do a bit of research before posting here. This is taken from Wikipedia, but the sources are there if you want to verify:
“finasteride reduces the incidence of prostate cancer by 30%” and “This study concluded that finasteride did not increase the risk of high-grade prostate cancer.”
Xanax is not a cure. I took it myself for a long time, and it did nothing to treat the cause of my anxiety or depression. It made me feel ‘numb’ to it, but any time I missed a dose or forgot my meds at home, I was in for a world of hurt. Ironically, Propecia was the only medication that actually reduced my anxiety to any significant degree.
One more thing…
I just wanted to say how it is unfortunate that to this day, men are not allowed to say that they are truly depressed over their hair loss. If they are sad and anxious and depressed over hair loss, they need to “man up” and just “deal with it.” You are a man. You are not allowed to become depressed over hair loss. After all, you Tarzan. Not Jane.
The fact is, hair loss can be a psychologically devastating condition for men. Please note the following article from the Mayo Clinic, especially the section “Psychosocial and Physical Importance.”
https://singlehair.com/articles/Article_Mayo_Clinic_Psychological_Effect.pdf
Allow me one excerpt:
“Most men with androgenetic alopecia experience psychosocial effects. Specifically, hair loss affects the balding individual’s feelings of attractiveness and satisfaction with
his physical appearance (body image) and can influence
other persons’ perceptions of him. The effects of male
pattern baldness on self-image and others’ perceptions are
not surprising in the context of the importance of hair in the
sociocultural context. Hair is an important determinant of
physical attractiveness and a means of expressing individuality. Throughout history, abundant hair has symbolized vitality, health, and virility, whereas loss or removal of hair can connote subjugation, loss of individuality, impotency,and/or decrepitude.”
But still, to this day, we are not allowed to say this. Nope, the depression couldn’t be from the hair loss. It’s GOT to be from the Propecia.
Or maybe the Minoxidil (that’s next!)
I wonder if Propecia is causing these women’s depression over hair loss:
https://www.womenshairlossproject.com/category/depression/
Tex – you sound really dumb when you continue to deny evidence that objectively exists, plain and simple. The things you say are exactly what I would expect from a Merck shill so your posts don’t need any further discussions.
Tex: No one is a bigger fan of cosmetic and plastic surgical procedures than I am, but I think it is a bad idea taking a drug that messes with your hormones and ultimately your sex life. This is why I push hair transplants, not Propecia. First, hair transplants give you a faster, permanent and safe result. Propecia does none of that. The only difference is cost as I see it. By comparison to surgery the pill is cheap, which is why people take it over surgery in many cases.
I never had any hair loss until after 40 and it was so gradual and so little I never even noticed it until I was 50 (I’m 54 now). So I suppose a 22 year old who is obviously headed for being a NW6 or NW7 by age 30 might be freaked out and depressed about it, but it is only one aspect of appearance that affects an individual. I’ve seen 50 year old men with juvenile hairlines who look like train wrecks and 30 year old men who are NW6s or 7s who are hot.
I’m not unsympathetic but most young guys I’ve run into aren’t that freaked out about it. Certainly not to the point of suicide. They typically just cut their hair short, and probably wish they had hair. The vast majority of hair loss sufferers do nothing about it, however, which I think blows holes in the argument of most men being emotionally devastated by it. But, I totally agree, having a full head of hair looks better than having hair loss. No argument there, which is why I enthusiastically endorse hair transplants (but not Propecia).
By the way, and a little off topic, but I think it is debatable to say BPH is a pathological condition. Yes and no. Yeah, if BPH disrupts urine flow then that’s pathological, but many cases of it do not and go unnoticed and cause no symptoms. It just depends on how it enlarges. Many experts say BPH is just a normal part of aging and probably has to do with fluctuations in hormones, sort of like male pattern baldness. in other words, not a big deal.
Again, BPH has anything to do with the subject, but I just thought I’d throw that out there. Saying BPH is pathological –in all cases with the qualifications I mentioned– is kind of dumb. Sort of like saying gray hair in men over 45 is pathological. Please.
‘Grant’: nice and convenient to call someone a shill when you don’t have much left to say, am I right? Say Jeremy, you said last year that there were new studies just around the corner that would finally prove this PFS is real once and for all. Where are they? I assume this is why you keep changing your username, just so you don’t have to answer to your empty promises?
I’m not denying any evidence, because there STILL IS NONE! Ever since our debates last year on this blog, what evidence has come out? These laughable Irwig studies? Maybe some more sick rats? Let me guess, all the proof is still right around the corner?
Sure okay, lets say i’m a shill. Now go ahead and prove me and my evil Merck overlords wrong.
Steven:
Propecia rarely causes side effects that ‘mess with your sex life’. Also, these usually reverse after continued use and always reverse after stopping the medication.
Hair transplants are usually not a permanent solution. Hair surrounding the transplanted areas will often continue to thin, necessitating further procedures. If your hair loss has stabilized and you aren’t losing any more, then you might be okay, but most men who get hair transplants are actively balding and using finasteride is a must unless they can afford annual touch-up procedures. Haven’t you done any research on this?
Propecia hair growth is not permanent, but results are often dramatic and a recent study showed results continue to improve in the majority of responders past 10 years of use. People have been using this drug for over 20 years and maintained their results. You are straight up lying when you say it isn’t effective, when that is entirely not up for debate.
…so are saying that because the young men you have personally run into don’t seem freaked out about hair loss that it isn’t an issue? Visit any hair loss forum and you will find pages and pages of posts by young men absolutely distraught over their hair loss. What about men who are afraid to leave their houses because of hair loss? Just because you don’t bump into them means they don’t exist? If you saw a woman battling cancer and she was in a good mood and smiling, would you then also say cancer doesn’t make people depressed or unhappy?
How on earth does your observation of some random people you bumped into blow holes in the study that Mark posted? It was authored by 7 medical doctors and contains 45 scholarly references.
It doesn’t matter if BPH is pathological or not. If it causes symptoms troubling enough to the patient, then it’s worth considering treatment options. Same goes for hair loss: If it causes symptoms troubling enough to the patient (depression, anxiety, etc.) then it’s worth considering treatment options. If the person isn’t troubled by their hair loss, then they won’t treat it. I really don’t understand any of the points you are trying to make other than the fact you clearly don’t like Propecia and are saying whatever you can to discredit it.
It all really comes down to a risk/benefit ratio. You clearly think the risks are too high for yourself. Okay, fine. I thought the benefits far exceeded the risks. I took an extremely small gamble and hit the hair jackpot. Been on it for 4 years and have a fuller head of hair than I did 8 years ago with no sides. My experience isn’t unusual. Over 95% of people will not have side effects and 9 out of 10 people will respond to it. For me it was a hair transplant in a bottle.
Tex: “finasteride reduces the incidence of prostate cancer by 30%†and “This study concluded that finasteride did not increase the risk of high-grade prostate cancer.â€
This is a lie. The actual Wikipedia article states: “The FDA has added a warning to finasteride concerning an increased risk of high-grade prostate cancer.[11] While the effect of finasteride on the risk of developing prostate cancer has not been established, evidence suggests it may temporarily reduce the growth and prevalence of benign prostate tumors, but could also mask the early detection of prostate cancer. ”
The article goes on to confirm: “In December 2008, the Swedish Medical Products agency concluded a safety investigation of finasteride and advised that finasteride may cause irreversible sexual dysfunction. The Agency’s updated safety information lists difficulty in obtaining an erection that persists indefinitely, even after the discontinuation of finasteride, as a possible side effect of the drug.”
You stated; “Xanax is not a cure. I took it myself for a long time, and it did nothing to treat the cause of my anxiety or depression. It made me feel ‘numb’ to it, but any time I missed a dose or forgot my meds at home, I was in for a world of hurt. Ironically, Propecia was the only medication that actually reduced my anxiety to any significant degree.”
Xanax has no side effects and in fact increases libido and sexual functioning and has anti-depressant effects. It’s bad rap came about because of it’s abuse as a street drug. It’s actually FAR less toxic than alcohol, which has no medical value, is freely available to anyone over 21, and is used for purely recreational purposes. This is hypocrisy at its worst.
Steven, you do realize I pulled the two phrases that you think are lies from the exact same Wikipedia article you just cited from? If you took a moment to read the paragraph directly beneath the one you pasted you may have realized this!
There was a more recent review done on the prostate cancer prevention trial that reached some very different conclusions. Don’t take my word for it or the word of the person who edited the Wikipedia article, it’s all cited and you can read the facts yourself. If you read that review and disagree with it for one specific reason or another, then feel free to discuss it. If you just disagree on principal and because it doesn’t match your beliefs, then let me know.
I’m not sure what your second quote has to do with prostate cancer or depression.
Xanax has no side effects now?
https://www.drugs.com/sfx/xanax-side-effects.html
The COMMON side effects include: Changes in appetite; constipation; decreased sexual desire or ability; diarrhea; dizziness; drowsiness; dry mouth; light-headedness; nausea; tiredness; weight changes.
Less common side effects include: Severe allergic reactions (rash; hives; itching; difficulty breathing; tightness in the chest; swelling of the mouth, face, lips, or tongue; unusual hoarseness); behavior changes; blurred vision; burning, numbness, or tingling; chest pain; confusion; dark urine; decreased coordination; decreased urination; fainting; fast or irregular heartbeat; hallucinations; loss of balance or muscle control; memory or attention problems; menstrual changes; muscle twitching; new or worsening mental or mood changes (eg, depression, irritability, anxiety; exaggerated feeling of wellbeing); overstimulation; red, swollen blistered, or peeling skin; severe or persistent dizziness, drowsiness, or light-headedness; shortness of breath or trouble breathing; suicidal thoughts or actions; tremor; trouble speaking; yellowing of the eyes or skin.
What on earth are you talking about, “no side effects”? Is it that you personally had no side effects then assume that nobody else has either? If that’s how you make observations, then the fact that Propecia hasn’t given me any side effects means that nobody else gets them!
Xanax may be less toxic than alcohol, but so what? You are saying toxicity is all that matters? If you consume a bottle of Xanax, you could die. If you consume a bottle of Propecia, absolutely nothing will happen. So in going along with your argument, Propecia is safe because it is not toxic?
I’m not really sure how many times I have to tell you this but I am not Jeremy and we have not spoken on this blog before the past few months. I have not seen any claims that “all the proof is right around the corner” but I do know that there expected releases of additional information that will cast doubt on Propecia as a safe medication. However this will likely take years as the research process does not happen overnight as you expect. The slow process is in no way an indication that Propecia is a safe drug.
By the way, I did not say that you are a shill, but you certainly seem like you may be one. Either a Merck accomplice or a really sick internet troll that likes to torture anonymous victims on the internet. In the short-run, you will be able to continue dragging the good guys (and victims) through the mud but in the long run these types of deeds are always exposed and consequences are faced.
Tex: Are you serious?
“The COMMON side effects include: Changes in appetite; constipation; decreased sexual desire or ability; diarrhea; dizziness; drowsiness; dry mouth; light-headedness; nausea; tiredness; weight changes.
“Less common side effects include: Severe allergic reactions (rash; hives; itching; difficulty breathing; tightness in the chest; swelling of the mouth, face, lips, or tongue; unusual hoarseness); behavior changes; blurred vision; burning, numbness, or tingling; chest pain; confusion; dark urine; decreased coordination; decreased urination; fainting; fast or irregular heartbeat; hallucinations; loss of balance or muscle control; memory or attention problems; menstrual changes; muscle twitching; new or worsening mental or mood changes (eg, depression, irritability, anxiety; exaggerated feeling of wellbeing); overstimulation; red, swollen blistered, or peeling skin; severe or persistent dizziness, drowsiness, or light-headedness; shortness of breath or trouble breathing; suicidal thoughts or actions; tremor; trouble speaking; yellowing of the eyes or skin.
“What on earth are you talking about, “no side effectsâ€? Is it that you personally had no side effects then assume that nobody else has either? If that’s how you make observations, then the fact that Propecia hasn’t given me any side effects means that nobody else gets them!”
That is such nonsense. I will agree with one side effect from Xanax, and that is memory problems. Okay. And another is increased aggressiveness. But those are no big deal. Nothing else. Certainly no libido loss. Quite the contrary.
Propecia kills the person’s sex life, which is about the worst side effect I can imagine. And all for what? A little hair on your head? Bad trade off if you ask me.
Tex: And one other thing. Every time I see my psychiatrist I try to get him to increase my Xanax dose, and he won’t. I’ve tried every angle and all he says is, “I’ve been doing this for 40 years and I know what I’m talking about.” So he’s like a brink wall on that. So, if Xanax had all these terrible side effects do you think I’d keep asking for more?
Its the Minoxidil.
If you look at all the women on the womenshairlossproject.com website, you will see tons of women who are fighting rather severe depression. However, we all know that hair loss doesn’t cause serious depression by itself.
But the one thing most balding men AND women have in common is that BOTH have probably messed with minoxidil at some point. Women generally don’t take propecia, but many DO use minoxidil. They even specifically sell a Rogaine version for women.
That factor they DO have in common! Its the rogaine.
Think about it. You are rubbing noxious HEART MEDICATION directly into your BRAIN, along with propelene glycol which many are alergic to.
With long term use, this cannot be good. I believe it disrupts proper brain functioning, leading to depression, brain fog (it is going right into your HEAD!) and a host of other physical and mental disorders.
Goodbye libido when you are rubbing HEART MEDICATION into your HEAD.
Most of the men who have used Propecia and stopped have used minoxidil too.
Its the one factor balding men and women have in common.
Frankly, I’m getting sick of the propecia denialists who deny this simple FACT that is right in front of their face.
I think Upjohn has got some shills out there trashing propecia to keep the attention off them.
Steven, I didn’t write out those Xanax side effects, so I don’t know why you are questioning me like it was just my opinion. I took them from drugs.com. This is a legitimate website that obtains their data from multiple scholarly sources. If you want to verify this yourself, you can go right ahead and do it, but it sounds like you are already convinced of what you want to believe.
You should check out the official package insert for Xanax, since it’s pretty obvious you just throw it away when you pick up your prescription:
https://www.erowid.org/pharms/alprazolam/alprazolam_insert1.pdf
In the study done on patients with panic disorder, 1388 people took Xanax and 1231 took placebo. 3.7 percent (subtracting placebo) of people taking Xanax reported sexual dysfunction. This means that Xanax causes HIGHER rates of sexual dysfunction than Propecia does. Here you are telling everyone that risking sexual side effects is never worth it, and you are taking a more dangerous drug than Propecia! Not even mentioning all the other side effects, overdose risks, dependence, withdrawal, etc.
Your final post speaks for itself quite clearly. You obviously haven’t even done any research on Xanax or read any literature, but you are convinced taking a higher dose is warranted and without risk. Your psychiatrist: a person who has spent at least 7 years in university learning about medicine, thinks it is risky. You, someone that has demonstrated he knows nothing about the medicine he takes daily, thinks its completely safe.
I’m sorry to be rude, but your last phrase was absolutely idiotic. You think the drug doesn’t have any side effects, and you haven’t even looked at the product insert! There are reasons why drugs require prescriptions, and you are probably the biggest one.
“Propecia kills the person’s sex life, which is about the worst side effect I can imagine. And all for what? A little hair on your head? Bad trade off if you ask me.”
Just feel I should mention again the fact that Xanax can kill a person’s sex life, and you take this risk every time you pop the pill.
I’ve taken Propecia for around 4 years. I have mind blowing sex with my girlfriend more frequently than when I was when I was in my 20’s, and not a single sexual issue. Propecia has bumped me up at least 1 Norwood level, but it’s actually probably closer to 2. I’m pretty much the exact opposite of depressed, and my self esteem has been completely restored after regrowing 90% of the hair I lost. All this for just a couple pennies a day. Oh yeah, what a massive trade-off!
Grant: Jeremy posted under multiple usernames, your posts are almost identical to his, you both hold the exact same viewpoint and he is the only other person here that ever suggested I was a shill. Maybe you are him, maybe you aren’t, but your posts are virtually identical.
What exactly would Merck accomplish by hiring shills to go post on some blogs?
How am I any more of a troll than you are? Is it so hard to believe I’m just a regular guy that had a great experience with Propecia?
Who am I dragging through the mud and how? I’m not going to be hyper-sensitive to everybody when I make posts. All i’m doing is calling out the vast amount of BS I keep seeing about Propecia.
If you really think i’m a Merck shill then I give you permission to have the last laugh while they are dragging me along with hundreds of others out of Merck’s HQ wearing handcuffs.
Back to the discussion at hand, I am simply not convinced. You are convinced based on almost no existing evidence. There is still yet to be a single confirmed case of permanent sexual dysfunction from Propecia. There is circumstantial evidence, and it isn’t even really that good. I don’t understand how anyone could be convinced of all this unless they had some vested interest. The fact that all these lawsuits are going down explains things a bit, however.
In no way whatsoever are the recent articles “alarmist.” It is very naive of a professional to assume the side effects will go away (when this HAS NOT been proven). It’s alarming that Propecia has had to update their website periodically to include more side effects that have revealed themselves over time. In April of this year, Propecia’s website included the possibility of lasting side effects. This was the first time this was included.
I went on Propecia when I was 21 for hair loss. I experienced sexual side effects, numbness in prostate the first week on the medication. I was told by three different doctors that these symptoms will go away. The side effects became somewhat less drastic but never went away.
I went on Propecia when I was 21. Never before the age of 21 did I experience any sexual difficulty, retrograde ejaculation, decrease in semen, sensitivity, numbness in prostate area, difficulty maintaining erections, no more spontaneous erections (nocturnal or morning) and gynecomastia.
I am 26 now, have been off Propecia for over a year and these side effects have remained the same. I was told the side effects would go away and have yet to see this.
It’s quite interesting that many doctors are so quick to defend a drug which is evidently becoming more controversial. I fully understand not wanting to “scare” people, but this drug is also relatively new in this time. I don’t think many doctors can anticipate if in fact Propecia has permanent side effects, or long range. By not being open about the possibilities, or as concerned with these reported side effects–this is much more alarming. A young man facing hair loss does not need to all of a sudden encounter multiple sexual side effects. This may be a small number, but I and many others are experiencing the devastating reality left-over from a relatively “harmless” drug.
If one does research, Propecia– “Finasteride is a 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor (brand names Proscar and Propecia). This is an antiandrogenic as they prevent the reduction of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT).
The Problem:
DHT is 3-5 times more potent than testosterone or other androgens (except in skeletal muscle tissue, where testosterone is the main androgen). They are unique because they do not counteract the effects or production of other androgens OTHER THAN DHT. Dihydrotestosterone is necessary for development of both external male sex organs and the prostate.
The fact that a medical professional, such as the one above, can so confidently state that “symptoms go away after taking the drug” (when there is much evidence out there contrary to the claim) makes one question if some professionals are promoting, or endorsing certain drugs.
This article speaks more specifically to the updates made to this drug in 2011 by the FDA:
https://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/InformationbyDrugClass/ucm299754.htm
“Erectile dysfunction after stopping use of these drugs was added as a known event in 2011.”
If I had known this was a possibility in 2007, I would have never taken this drug. What will happen then to the people who experienced the negative side effects long before Propecia added them to their list in 2011?
Tex; I hope you read brendan’s posts above they say it all. Xanax doesn’t do any the things that propecia does, as far as sexual sides effects are concerned, and Xanax is safer than alcohol, which is hypocrisy at it’s worse. A big bottle of stoli is a hell of a lot more toxic and dangerous than Xanax and alcohol has no medical value. None of this makes no sense.
Steven, it still appears that either you have entirely failed to comprehend, or are just simply ignoring the facts that were plainly laid out in front of you. You are refusing to admit that the drug you take is more dangerous than Propecia even though the package insert shows this in black and white. Is it safe to assume you simply glanced at it, saw the numbers, then closed it immediately because the truth scared you a little bit?
I invite you again to take a read. Look at page 9. You will see that there are almost 60 side effects listed. It’s incredible that you are afraid of a 2% of chance of decreased libido / erectile dysfunction from finasteride and call it dangerous, when 6.4% of Xanax patients reported decreased libido and 3.7% reported sexual dysfunction. You are such a hypocrite!
I don’t know why you keep comparing it to alcohol, what does that have to do with anything? It makes no sense to you that alcohol has no medicinal value? It’s not sold as a medicine, it’s sold as a beverage! Does it make no sense to you that Pepsi has no medicinal value either? Windex is more dangerous than Alcohol! Lions are more dangerous than kittens! I simply can’t understand the point you keep trying to make.
“None of this makes no sense.”
What on earth is this double negative supposed to mean?
11% of Xanax patients reported cognitive impairment, 8.3% reported cognitive disorder, and 2.2% a confusional state. This might explain why you can’t understand any of these very clear facts.
Brendan, the fact that side effects go away HAS been proven. Many placebo controlled studies note that patient dropped out due to side effects, and they acknowledge that the side effects went away after a follow-up.
If you are saying that these persistent side effects never go away, persistent side effects haven’t even been proven in the first place. The link you provided states this very clearly, that no causal relationship could be established and the warnings added to the label were simply a result of the small number of cases reported to the FDA.
The glaring fact that people still don’t recognize is that Propecia and Proscar have been studied hundreds of times and in many long-term placebo controlled trials. Not a single one has encountered or mentioned any of the test subjects ending up with these persistent symptoms. Many of these studies involve thousands of men.
This is a fact that can not be escaped. I haven’t seen a single satisfactory answer to this question. To me this means either that persistent side effects are not real, or that they occur so incredibly infrequently that incidence rates are likely somewhere in the realm of 1-in-5000. You can argue science and DHT and everything all you like, but when tests are conducted, these reactions are simply not encountered. That’s about as powerful as data gets.
Tex. well excuse me for the double negative. Blame the iPhone not the Xanax. Now on the subject of dangerous drugs, alcohol tops the list. And it’s legal and sold for recreational purposes. Not so with Xanax. And stop saying xanax is a “dangerous drug. ” not true. Propecia kills your sex life, so that makes it a dangerous drug in my opinion. As far as side effects go, Xanax is odd in that it can, but not always, causes what I call “flip flop” side effects: some people get decreased libido and some increased libido (such as in my case) so this is a safe and good drug. I only take 2.5 mgs a day so that is nothing. Propecia’s safety has not been established as it is too new a drug and has not been studied like Xanax.
One of my sentences was a bit awkward. Xanax is a legal drug with an RX and is marketed for medical purposes, where alcohol is far more toxic, has no medical value, is sold to anyone over 21 in any quantity, so it’s a bit ridiculous to call Xanax a “dangerous drug” and alcohol only a “beverage”!
Of course the minoxidil fanboys keep scapegoating propecia, trying to mask attention from the fact that the vast majority suffer side effects from applying a highly toxic anti-hypertensive heart medication the doctors hardly even use for its intended purpose anymore because its toxicity.
Oh yeah, and they mix it with this wonderful thing called propylene glycol.
“According to the Environmental Working Group, propylene glycol can cause a whole host of problems. It is rated a 4 by them, which is categorized as a “moderate†health issue. It has been shown to be linked to cancer, developmental/reproductive issues, allergies/immunotoxicity, neurotoxicity and endocrine disruption. It has been found to provoke skin irritation and sensitization in humans as low as 2% concentration, while the industry review panel recommends cosmetics can contain up to 50% of the substance.”
https://thegoodhuman.com/2009/03/31/what-is-propylene-glycol-and-why-you-should-avoid-it/
Reproductive issues i.e. sexual dysfunction, is a KNOWN side effect of propylene glycol, yet the fanboys keep happily encouraging people to rub this stuff into their heads and pointing the finger at Propecia when something goes wrong.
And minoxidil is even better!
Minoxidil itself has been reported to cause sexual dysfunction:
https://www.regrowhair.com/general-hair-loss-topics/common-questions/does-minoxidil-cause-sexual-side-effects/
Again, women don’t take propecia but they often have taken rogaine / minoxidil. This explains the sexual dysfunction, the depression, the brain fog, and all the other things hair loss sufferers get, regardless of gender.
Again, BOTH men and women take minoxidil. This is why you see similar effects in both groups.
This is why even using this product for just a short time can hurt you, maybe for LIFE. It can cause permanent sexual dysfunction as plenty of reports show. Lives are being lost to minoxidil for just a few strands of hair.
Tex: Get over this nonsense about Xanax being a dangerous drug and Propecia turning you into a super-stud. A little ridiculous in my opinion. Xanax is about as benign a drug as you can get. But Propecia has turned guys into eunuchs.
Steven: MINOXIDIL has turned guys into eunuchs and worse. The evidence is right under your nose but you refuse to see it.